Questions & Answers about detailing ? ? ?

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                             DETAILING QUESTIONS ?  ?  ?       AND        ANSWERS 

Q When applying a 'layer' of sealant over the clear coat, how much thickness are we actually talking about for that sealant?

• Less than 0.000001" thick.

Q When we add layers, which is a really popular concept - do we really build thickness in the sealant, or are we just polishing the same surface more?

• Layering:

I prefer the word ‘film’ as opposed to ‘layer’, a film more accurately describes a thinly applied sealant or wax, were as a layer tends to describe a thicker covering. Some specialty paint protection systems can have subsequent film added to increase protection and paint appearance, systems must cure or cross-link prior to application of subsequent coats. Depending on the product type, cure times vary from a few hours to days.

By applying another low-solvent product (Victoria Concours Wax - http://www.victoriawax.com/) on top of one that has already cross-linked you can increase its density (up to a point) two to four cross-linked (cured) applications are usually considered optimum One thing that will negate the applied product density is lack of clarity, the base coat (that contains the vehicle’s colour) is covered / protected by a clear coat of urethane paint, which as well as providing protection is clear to enable the paint colour to show through and provide the colour with depth. Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be optically clear (transparent) otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted. One of the problems with ‘layering’ some polymers is that they tend to occlude (become less opaque) as the thickness increases

The viscosity of the previous layer requires more solvent to significantly melt away than the next applied wax layer can contain The carrier system allows the product to fill and level the paint film surface to produce a flat surface (this flat level surface is more pronounced with polymers due to their molecular alignment characteristics). This level surface optimizes the paint film surface's desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)

You could also try this ‘layering’ technique- apply a liquid Carnauba wax (liquid wax usually contains polymer and solvents) and allow to set-up (usually 1-2 hours, do a smear test to endure that its dry and then a apply to a paste Carnauba wax; allow the solvents to evaporate for 2-4 hours, and finally buff surface with a 100% cotton towel (http//: www.DFTowel.com ) to produce jetting (a ‘wet-look’ shine)

• Wax- two coats to ensure even coverage (maximum is four) a wax cures (hardens when the solvents have evaporated ) usually 25-45 minuets then you can apply the second coat (ensure that there are no solvents left by doing a smear test otherwise the solvents in the second coat will remove the first) (See also Spit Shine)

• Paste wax – use a low-solvent wax (Victoria Concours Wax, Souverän or P21S) is just a thicker form of liquid wax, just a different consistency, not necessarily more or less solvents. Some wax products use an emulsion to keep more liquid without adding solvents which, in high concentrations could remove the underlying wax too rapidly to allow the "melting" together of the wax" strata.

• Polymers- some contain a mineral or silicone oil, or solvent based carrier system (these may also be in the form of an oil / water emulsion) and by the nature of this product they need to vaporise / dissipate and then its needs to cross-link (this is time dependant (unless a catalyst is added) and is quite separate from the drying process To my knowledge, all polymer sealants are based on an emulsion system containing petroleum distillates. As a result, even the mildest petroleum distillates remove polymer sealants. Zaino Show Car Polish is the only polymer sealant that I'm aware of that is not based on the element silicone and can therefore be successfully layered (a new application of Zaino Show Car Polish does not remove previous applications).

• Solvents / oils provide a lubricant and aid the adherence process by working their way into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the previous `layer' softening it, providing each subsequent applications carrying agent (solvent, oils silicones or emulsion) are not so concentrated that they degrade or remove (as in the case of a cleaner wax) what has been previously applied.

Also be aware that the both the product and the foam pad may be non-abrasive, but application pressure if not kept to an absolute minimum and using use a very light and even pressure, may re-introduce surface marring and/or removal of the previously applied product by friction. (See also Spit Shining, Wax (Hand applied)

Q How can varying the last step product effect the perceived depth of color, if the layer that we're applying that product to is of course already a clear coat?

• Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be optically clear (transparent) otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted. One of the problems with ‘layering’ some products (polymer/wax) is that they tend to occlude (become less opaque) as the thickness increases

Q What is a polymer?

• My first reaction was-which one of the 30,000 polymers are we going to discuss here.

*The very simplified version; Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule, which forms a bond with the paint; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow, polymers (Zaino, Klasse, Rejex, etc) Some paint sealants contain wax; the longevity of a paint sealant is due to the type of silicone (usually amino-functional silicone) that is used in its formulation. Polymers sealants require a paint to form a convalescent (or Covalent (molecular)) bond to (usually 12-24 hours); they will not bond directly to metal to provide protection

Q In Canada the temperature fluctuates so much does drastic change in temperature affect the clear coat/paint? If so how? Just curious that's all.

• If your asking about temperature change, no harm, polyurethane is a plastic so it will expand/contract .

A 'moderate' temp swing, same thing. If you heated the surface and then immediately chilled it it may cause thermal stress and fracture [tech stuff like coefficient of expansion, temperature difference, etc] which means you would end up with 'spider web' cracking

Q Temperature seems really important!

• Indeed it is- Compound Polishing Surface Temperature - the temperature of a paint surface should be monitored when using a high-speed polisher, friction heat can cause a rapid temperature rise in the order of 20oF (i.e. initial surface temp 80oF, heat attained with a cutting foam pad at 1,100 RPM for approx. ten seconds is approx. 104oF) the localized paint temperature should be limited to 110 oF. In accordance with the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) a temperature of 115 oF will cause the urethane clear coat to soften and the foam pad will cause scratching that is forced deep into the clear coat.

Q Your opinions on Megs, Clay Magic red, and Top of the Line please. Or other aggressive clays that you like.

• Detailing Clay Abrasive Ratings (on a scale of 1 to 5)

Hi-Tech Body Sponge™ - most surface marring Clay Magic® - Red- very aggressive; a lot of surface marring - 5/5 Sonus Grey Block Detailing Clay- very aggressive; a lot of surface marring - 5/5 Top of the line purple- slightly less aggressive - 4/5 Clay Magic® -Blue- less aggressive; less marring - 3/5 Mother's - Yellow- 2/5 Sonus Ultra Fine -Green- 1/5 (will not remove wax / sealant)

Q My clear coat has etchings from the bird droppings. Once i notice them i remove them immediately. But after i remove the droppings i can see the clear coat has been burned. Is there anything i can do to prevent this

• No wax or polymer sealant can provide a permanent shield against acidic bird excrement (Collinite 845 Insulator Wax is probably the most durable Carnauba wax product) but this may only provide enough of a barrier to enable it to be removed quickly before causing too much damage to the paint film surface.

• The type of damage inflicted on a paint surface is relevant to the birds diet, seed eating birds don't require the strong digestive acid that cormorants, pelicans, and other fish eaters do (to digest bones).

Seed eating birds use gravel to help digest their food so grit and sand are some of the major components, which can cause scratching.

• Birds that eat berries will cause acidic damage to the paint surface. Insect honeydew (sometimes mistaken for tree resin) excreted by aphids or scale insects that infest the leaves and branches is also acidic. Residue should be removed (see below) as soon as possible as it could compromise the clear coat.

• Take your time and be careful with its removal, these acids should be removed and/or neutralized as quickly as possible. Using an IPA (isopropyl alcohol) no ammonia based (ammonia acts as an acid accelerant) glass cleaner. Or use a gel alcohol hand cleaner (Purell®) place a small amount on to a first aid gauze pad and apply to effected area this will help it stay in place during the necessary dwell time. The alcohol content acts as a drying agent, which will extract the acid, then thoroughly flush with water to rinse away any grit or sand, etc or use detailers clay to encapsulate it, re-spray the area let it dwell for 2-3 minutes and wipe dry.

• Avoid using a QD spray to flush residue, as they contain either Carnauba wax or polymer sealants, which will seal the acid and not allow it to dissipate.

Q Petroleum distillate is just a fancy way of saying solvents. You won't find many waxes or polishes that don't contain them, but many manufacturers try to hide the fact that they use them by calling them a different name, such as 'banana oil' which is actually a solvent called Isoamyl acetate or 'orange oil' which is a solvent called Limonene.

• There is a lot more to hydrocarbon petroleum distillates then solvents (but thats the subject of another article)

Solvents: Solvents are used for chemical cleaning, and as a carrier system, it also makes products workable, especially in spray applications and to enable a products spreading ability, as is the case with Carnauba wax, which in its natural state is rock hard.

The low surface tension of silicones is sometimes added to solvents to improve the wetting ability and to improve the surface contact. Solvents require an aerobic cure (exposure to air) to allow them to evaporate (outgas); some solvents contain formaldehyde, which dissolves both natural rubber and synthetic compounds, and some contain petroleum distillates specifically hydrocarbon and oxygenated solvents, which represent most of the total organic solvents used.

Organic solvents - can be classified by chemical structure, for example water is a solvent, but is inorganic. Solvents provide solubility for the other ingredients, dependant upon the type of solvent used will determine the product's drying time.

Use a safe solvent, d-limonene citrus-based (P21S Total Auto Wash or Simple Green® Aircraft & Precision Cleaner) i.e. solvents that do not contain any harmful components (butyl, heptanes or xylene or hydrocarbon aliphatic solvents) With all cleaning products (especially solvents) always test a small inconspicuous area first to ensure it won't discolour, stain or etch the surface, and ensure that the pH of the product is suitable for the material. It is important not to leave a solvent based chemical on the surface longer than is necessary. After the paint surface has been subjected to a chemical cleaning its protective layer (s) have been removed and the paint surface left without protection, so it is very important that a wax or polymer protection be applied immediately.

There are three main types:

• Oxygenated Solvents- alcohols, glycol ethers, ketones, esters, and glycol ether esters. Oxygenated solvents are synthesized from other chemicals to form the desired solvent. Those solvents are typically of a high purity with specifications ranging from 99.0% to 99.9% purity.

• Hydrocarbon Solvents (Petroleum Distillates) - aliphatic (include methane, propane, and kerosene, they are flammable and may be explosively flammable).

• Aromatic hydrocarbons- (are the most toxic compounds found in petroleum products and include such substances as para-xylene (benzene, toluene, ethyl benzene, and xylene), which are all volatile organic compounds (VOC) (See also Petroleum Distillates)

Information resource:

• The American Solvents Council represents major hydrocarbon and oxygenated solvents manufacturers and users.

Q I wonder if there is any difference between water based painting and solvent based painting on paint correction, gloss and reflectivity?

* Water-Based Paint Finishes: In the past twenty years, environmental and occupational safety concerns have put great pressure on the oil-based coatings industry. Many industries (including newspaper inks mfg) have seen the migration of coatings toward water-based formulations. These changes moved approximately 20% world's automotive industry to water borne coating by 1999, since this change there has been a lot of talk about the durability of these automotive paints. (See also Paint Systems)

However, water borne paints have some drawbacks:

• Water borne paints are softer than acrylic oil based paints. The quick forced dry process using higher curing temperatures causes the paint to dry fast, but not as hard. As a result, these paints scratch more easily.

• Water borne paints also have difficulties with increased orange peal and production line runs and sags. The increased orange peal causes a reduction in overall smoothness and gloss.

• Water borne paints are also more porous than conventional acrylic finishes. This accelerates a process known as drift; it is the process of waxes and sealants soaking into the pores of the finish.

• Because the finish of a water-based paint is porous, when magnified it looks similar to the surface of the moon, peaks and valleys etc., as sealants heat and cool, they soak into the finish. Drift occurs in every known finish, however the water borne paint allows this process to occur much more rapidly, in some cases, even as short as a two week period of time. As drift occurs, the paint is left susceptible to the outdoor elements.

This leads the paint to loose gloss and be susceptible to water spots, acid rain, industrial fallout and many other forms of foreign particles.

* Maintenance -water borne finishes aren't dramatically different than caring for a conventional paint finish, as with most paint systems the base colour coat is protected with a water-based polyethylene clear coat

Q I've heard that it is more difficult to compound and polish the water based painting than the solvent based painting. Is it true?

• No (see above)

QaWhich one is harder ?

• Solvent-based paint

QbDoes water based or solvent based have any influence on the paint hardness ?

• Yes

Qc - Can I use Menzerna Super Intensive Polish and their nano polish by hand to remove scratches?

• These polishes were designed to work with high speed rotary polisher’s, utilizing friction to break-down the diminishing abrasives

Q I have always used a circular motion when polishing and applying wax, etc. but I have read that it's better to use just straight line (up/down or side to side) when polishing. Why is that?

• Polish- these products contain abrasives and should be applied in straight-line motions (Forget what Mr. Miyagi was teaching the Karate Kid) circular motions will cause circular directional marks (swirl marks) When an abrasive is applied by hand the pressure applied is uneven and the reflected light highlights the paint films surface peaks and valleys differently.

Q How to get rid of smells of smoking...

• Always check the cabin air filter and replace after remove the odour

The most important aspect of removing or at the very least mitigating an offensive odour is that you must find and remove its origin. If you thoroughly clean the interior and it still smells you have not removed the material which is generating the smell. You can use an ozone machine, steam / extractor, scrub, and vacuum etc

Tobacco smoke- is one of the most difficult smells to remove from a car, as the smoke permeates almost every interior finish. Most smokers drop cigarette / cigar ash down the side of the steering column or gear shift, there may also be tar stains on these items; until all traces of ash and tar are removed the tobacco smell will remain

Start by cleaning the carpets and upholstery with an extractor and 303 Carpet & Spot Remover TM . Clean leather, vinyl and all interior glass surfaces with approved cleaners, once the carpet has dried for 24 hours, sprinkle with baking soda, rub it in to ensure that it penetrates the fibres and leave it for about a week, then vacuum the carpet to remove. The baking soda should absorb the remaining odour in the carpet. As with all smell and odour removal check the cabin air filter, change as necessary.

Don't forget the headliner, as this is the source of most of the tobacco smell.

Place an open container of fresh ground coffee under each seat or foot well, coffee works astonishing well at absorbing cigarette odours.

Q Seems my car got covered with pin dot sized /spray of sap

• Below surface 'spots' are caused by acid rain, industrial fallout, tree resin (sap) or bird excrement, if left for any length of time they will etch the paint film surface leaving a concave circular mark. These can usually be removed by using detailer's clay to remove any hardened surface deposits, and then using a solvent type cleaner (Klasse All-In-One) and then use a machine polish to level the surface (Iz Einzett TM Metallic Polish or Iz Einzett TM Paint Polish) and reapply surface protection once spots have been removed

Q This product X says that it doesnt contain abrasives, but removes scratches and swirl marks. So basically it has oils and fillers? Why are the oils it has in it necessary to put on paint?

• To remove scratches or swirl marks you need an abrasive product to remove them, unless you 'fill' them with a Glaze.A Glaze is like a concealer for automotive paint. The glaze fills and hides minor swirls and imperfections to create a smooth, flawless looking finish faster.

Q Here is something I heard about paint oils. "The reason for the oils is that they are already found in the paint, but they tend to dry up, which leads to the clear becoming brittle. Thus, if you keep it malleable AND protected (ie: polished and waxed), it lasts forever (well, almost forever)."

• 1.Using oil on an oil-based paint system (single stage and especially lacquers) would avoid oxidation (drying out)

• 2.Water-based paint (due to VOC regulations 99% of US paints) do not need oil to 'feed' the paint to prevent oxidation( despite what Zymol marketing want you to believe)

• 3.If you apply oil to a water-based polyurethane paint (clear coat) most of the particles used in oils cannot permeate polyurethane as its pores are smaller and the oil will 'sit' on the surface, which will not cause problems for wax products, but will not allow a polymer to cross-link.

• 4.Alcohol in the form of IPA will remove the oils, which may act as filler, giving the false appearance of a defect-free surface.

• 5.Oils may have a detrimental effect on polyurethane by causing its adhesive bond to ‘lift’, as a very small proportion of the particulates will be small enough to permeate.

• Items 3 and 5 also apply to leather products when used on covered leather upholstery

Q Is Leatherequi the best product for leather care?

• “ Our products are the “original” and “Simply the Best for Leather” as dubbed by the RROC in 1968. George Pavlisko Jr. continues research and development to always keep our products cutting edge and “the best”. Leatherequi

Since the late ‘80s early ‘90s, many of the newer domestic cars and some imports (US) do not use natural leather hides anymore. Approximately 90% of vehicle manufacturers have used (thermoplastic) polyurethane covered split hide leather for their interior upholstery.

According to Leatherequi you apply the (conditioning) oil first and then the cleaner, but the cleaner will only remove dirt (oils) not the Leatherequi oils.I have always questioned how does the cleaner distinguish between oils (i.e. the most common dirt in leather is body oils followed by suntan oils and then oily residue brought in via the a/c)

Q What is (paint) orange peel?

• Orange Peel is paint film surface that has a dimpled appearance that paint takes on due to an equipment/operator caused defect. Like wrong paint-gun pressure and/or distance from panel, an operator not knowing how to set-up the equipment for that particular type of paint, or even a partly blocked paint-gun nozzle, improper pre-paint preparation and /or paint application, or uneven drying of the clear coat.

It should have been eliminated after the final shooting of clear coat by wet sanding the paint film surface, and polishing with an abrasive polish and a high-speed rotary polisher. After delivery- It can be removed by wet-sanding (colour sanding) by a very experienced detailer / vehicle paint restoration expert

Check the paint with a paint thickness gauge (PTG) to see how much paint there is available before attempting repairs Clear coat that is too thin looses its ability to adhere effectively (delaminating) to the underlying paint layer and will flake off

Q Smell from vehicle A/C system, how do I get rid of it?

• For odour from the air conditioning unit (1Z Klima-Cleaner – http//:www. [url=http://www.drivewerks.com/]DriveWerks.com - Everything you've always wanted for your car, garage and lifestyle...[/url]) is an effective means for removing odour-causing bacteria, fungi and other germs. Spray into the interior A/C vents and allow product to work for 30 minutes. It creates a healthier and fresh smelling environment for the interior of your car, change cabin air filter

Tip-turn off the AC but leave the fan running for the last minute or two before turning off the ignition to help dry the condenser and surrounding area. Also check the cabin air filter, change as necessary

A/C Evaporator Core Treatment- Is the odour from your vehicles a/c system emitting a fouls smelling odour? This evaporator treatment is designed to deodorize / sanitize your auto a/c system; unit is fitted with a multi directional spray novel that will guarantee complete coverage of the evaporator core. [url=http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/vac858187.html]Vacula 858187 - DeoWash™ A/C Evaporator Core Cleaner[/url]

Charcoal Cabin Air Filters - Pollen and harmful substances inside a vehicle can be up to six times more concentrated than outside. Bosch Premium Cabin Filters prevent harmful spores and pollen from entering the vehicle interior and keep passengers and downstream HVAC components protected. Bosch Premium Cabin Filters - [url=http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/Filters/CabinAirFilters.htm]Bosch Premium Cabin Air Filters[/url]

Q Lastnight someone threw an egg at my car, and there are marks on the paint, how can I remove them?

• As well as the impact damage, egg contains proteins and amino acids that will actually erode the clear coat and eventually the basecoat if not neutralized / removed. If the affected paintwork is not neutralized any remaining acid residue will be reactivated each time it comes into contact with water (See also Reactivity)Automotive International A, B C Decontamination/Neutralization wash system (www.autoint.com)

Saturate the area with Isopropyl Alcohol and keep it ‘wet’ for 4-5 minutes with a soaked towel laid on the stain, do not agitate the surface. Flush with clean water and dry thoroughly. Inspect surface for cracking, discolouration or other damage with a 30X lighted magnifying loupe, use a chemical cleaner to remove any discolouration, and then apply a paint protection product. If the clear coat shows signs of failure (cracking) take vehicle to a professional paint / body shop.

After the paint surface has been subjected to a chemical cleaning its protective layer (wax / sealants) have been removed and the paint surface left without protection, so it is very important that a wax or polymer protection be reapplied immediately. To correct any surface marring / light scratching use a mild polish (Zaino PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner Swirl Remover, All-In-One (Z-AIO) or Menzerna Final Polish II) using a White or an Orange LC pad, 1300RPM / PC speed 5 – 6

Q I've read a lot about 'jewelling' a cars paint, I've tied it using a PC and Menz polish with soft pads but there is little difference, what am I doing wrong?

• Your problem isn't the product or the pads, but the machine. There are limitations associated with a PC, it doesn't produce sufficient friction to adequately break-down the diminishing abrasives. You just wont get the same finish as you would with a rotary (which incidently Menzerna polishes were formulated for)

Try using a rotary with a LC CCS Blue pad and Menzerna 106FF and / or 85RD at 1500 RPM Using a rotary with these pads and at this speed is safe as the pads have a very slight abrasive ability and will provide a good starting point for using the rotary polisher

Q Is Microban safe to use on leather and fabrics to netrelize mould fungi?

• Microban® Disinfectant Spray offers protection against dangerous and destructive micro organisms. Disease causing bacteria, fungi and viruses cause illness and threaten our health and well-being. It is well documented that mould, mildew, fungi and bacteria cause materials to degrade and deteriorate. The destructive action of micro organisms on materials often results in unpleasant odours. pH balanced and non-corrosive unlike chlorine bleaches, the formula is pH balanced and is non-corrosive. Microban is suitable for application to a wide range of materials and surfaces. Strong enough to destroy harmful disease causing micro organisms while gentle enough to be applied to delicate textiles, carpets, rugs, antiques and sleep surfaces. Why Microban is an important part of a mould remediation protocol. While cleaning removes visible contamination, significant quantities of micro organisms are often left behind. An application of Microban after cleaning destroys many of these micro organisms, germs, odours, mould and mildew, thus preventing them from multiplying - [[1]]

Jon - wanted to thank you for the info on Detailing Wiki regarding glass cleaning. Tried multiple cleanings with multiple towles, tried IP, tried different cleaners but each day as I drove to work in the morning sun I would see streaks and mostly haze that just wouldn't come off. Bought some Norwex towels, used some distilled water and presto.....clean as a whistle. I now use Norwex on all windows, inside and out. Amazing that water and a towel did the trick. Thanks again, Howard

   * The above answers provided by information@TOGWT.com aka Jon Miller; you should verify any / all information provided. . .

Information resource-

• "Automotive Detailing Inside & Out, A Knowledge Base for the Perfectionist"– by Jon Miller

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